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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on November 29, 2004, at 20:46:16
My parents have significant degrees of mental illness and/or personality disorders.
Whew.
Why did it feel so darn good to state it so calmly?
Posted by gardenergirl on November 29, 2004, at 22:55:22
In reply to Wow! I said it!, posted by Dinah on November 29, 2004, at 20:46:16
Dinah,
A reply to this and to your thread just above.Good for you for saying all of that. I hope you feel some relief in not having to keep that in and be good. And I think you are doing your best in the entire situation, but I was particularly impressed by the looking in the mirror thing with your son. What a lucky little boy to have such an empathic mommy.
Take care, and don't forget that oxygen for yourself, first.
((((Dinah))))
gg
Posted by sunny10 on November 30, 2004, at 8:16:00
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on November 29, 2004, at 22:55:22
couldn't have said it better myself....
These things are mostly genetic (and besides PTSD)or nurtured illnesses.
Why aren't we allowed to say this stuff out loud? All the T's I've spoken with call saying this stuff out loud "the blame game". If we have been victim to this stuff (and most of us have BECOME this stuff as we aged) why AREN'T we allowed to get it off our chests and out of our minds???
Any response to that, gg??
Dinah, you're amazing. It sounds like you and your husband are trying to do the best for your son, and that divorce is not even on the table. That's good. You may want to consider family counselling to include your son, with the T guiding you age appropriately, in the discussions about how hard, on all of you, it is to be losing parents/grandparents.
That way Junior doesn't get left behind, emotionally. I've been "left behind" in my past- I've worn those faces you've shown him in the mirror. Mostly I just needed to be included... maybe that's what he needs.
GG, what do your studies say about this stuff? Do you think family counselling would help Dinah's little family?
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 9:32:41
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it!, posted by sunny10 on November 30, 2004, at 8:16:00
Well, I have no experience or training in family counseling...couldn't work that elective in, unfortunately. But certainly, family counseling has a lot of benefits.
As far as getting stuff off of your chest and the "blame game"...well, in my own individual therapy, as well as what I've done with the clients I've seen, I don't worry so much about blame. I deal with feelings. So if you feel angry, upset, hurt, resentment, etc., it's healthy to express that in a safe environment. It's an authentic feeling, so expressing it versus suppressing or repressing it is good. However, expressing the feeling and linking it to a memory or event does not mean that the feeling was *caused* by such. They are associated, but our feelings are our own. I guess that is as far as I might get in worrying about blame...challenging someone to own and express the feeling versus focusing on the externals.
gg
Posted by sunny10 on November 30, 2004, at 10:17:11
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » sunny10, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 9:32:41
hmmm- but we "own" and "express" our feelings here every day... so why doesn't it feel better if that's all there is to it???
Sorry, Dinah, just a side tangent... but I figure it can't hurt to see how the child sees it all (me being the immature brat here, it seems- your son seems to handle it better that I do...)
-sunny10
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2004, at 21:47:52
In reply to Re: GG, posted by sunny10 on November 30, 2004, at 10:17:11
Good question, Sunny.
I think I was viewing emotional expression from a viewpoint that included having to repress emotion as a child. When a child is not allowed to freely express all emotions, including the negative ones, part of that child's development is stolen away. The emotions themselves don't go away, they get stored up. So for an adult who learned as a child to be "cheerful" all the time or to refrain from showing negative emotions, it can feel like a relief to be able to express them in a healthy and safe way. It's hard, though.Perhaps for those who did not grow up that way, there is less relief associated with the everyday expression of negative emotions. But that expression may help prevent emotional blockages and problems related to such?
gg
Posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:14:27
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on November 29, 2004, at 22:55:22
Thanks, gg. I'm trying as hard as I can, but I'm getting tired.
I brought up what I had said to my therapist, and said it was nice to say it calmly rather than my more heated (and less acknowledging) outbursts of "My mother/father is nuts!" I asked him if he would agree with my statement, and his oh so professional response was "Your mother is whacked!"
I told him how guilty I always felt for having problems that usually seem to only come with severe physical or sexual abuse. He reassured me (Is reassure the right word?) that the extreme inconsistency and level of emotional disturbance in the home was enough to account for it. I'm still not sure though. I feel such a fraud having so many problems that experts seem to be in consensus only occur in people who were sexually abused, while I absolutely was not.
Posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:18:07
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it!, posted by sunny10 on November 30, 2004, at 8:16:00
My therapist recommended a play therapist he knows. I called her, despite the fact that some of his recommendations have been not so good, but she hasn't gotten back to me. I wonder if she will... sigh.
My husband is bitterly opposed to outside therapy for my son, and wants us to try the school counselor. I think this is a bit beyond what she's supposed to do. But I will contact her for suggestions, which will probably end up being a referral.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 1, 2004, at 11:03:20
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:14:27
Dinah,
I'm having similar feelings about my own level of trauma, but my T reassures me in a similar way. Perhaps one of our ways of defending against the emotional pain is to minimize the effects of the trauma? Or perhaps it's society's influence?gg
Posted by sunny10 on December 1, 2004, at 12:35:01
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on December 1, 2004, at 11:03:20
I agree with BOTH of you!! I feel guilty,too, for NOT being sexual abused, but still feeling horrible about being alternately hated and neglected.
Whew, thanks, you two it's good to know that I'm not alone here! Even my T's (4 over the years)haven't given me the right to "feel that feeling". I really appreciate you guys for sharing this stuff. I feel less alone now.
Posted by sunny10 on December 1, 2004, at 12:39:24
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » sunny10, posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:18:07
Being a good parent has a lot to do with "being Dinah". You have every right to speak to a child pychiatrist during the course of your own therapy to give you the tools you need to help your son and thus help yourself.
So don't make it family therapy- go to the child pyschologist yourself just to learn what you can/ can't say to him appropriate to his age.
Your hubby is probably afraid to have your son go to therapy because hubby would feel emasculated. To him, it's probably just proof that he can't solve everything himself. Most guys hate that. If I'm wrong and overstepped my bounds, I apologize.
Posted by littleone on December 1, 2004, at 15:06:03
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:14:27
> I told him how guilty I always felt for having problems that usually seem to only come with severe physical or sexual abuse. He reassured me (Is reassure the right word?) that the extreme inconsistency and level of emotional disturbance in the home was enough to account for it. I'm still not sure though. I feel such a fraud having so many problems that experts seem to be in consensus only occur in people who were sexually abused, while I absolutely was not.
Dinah, even if physical or sexual abuse were never present in your life, it certainly sounds like verbal and emotional abuse were. I guess you need to remember that emotional abuse underpins all of the different types of abuse and is often the more damaging of the abuses. I've read that it can be the betrayal/inconsistency/etc involved in sexual abuse that is more damaging than the act itself. (Please note that I am not meaning to minimise the experiences of anyone who has been sexually or physically abused. I'm just not very good saying what I mean sometimes).A while ago when my T was kind of insinuating that it sounded like I'd been abused in the past, I was very quick to jump up and say "but I was never sexually/physically abused". He then said something about how he didn't suspect sexual abuse because I didn't fit that particular profile (ie my symptoms didn't).
I've never really sat down and looked up how the symptoms varied as such, but I would daresay that they could be just as damaging in severe emotional abuse as what they could be in the case of sexual abuse.
People don't start disassociating and whatnot just because of a so so childhood. It takes terrible abuse to invoke those sort of defenses. Please don't minimise what you went through (and are still going through I might add.)
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 1, 2004, at 18:26:59
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:14:27
Dinah, my analyst and I recently spoke about recent findngs that emotional abuse and neglect are now coming into prominence as even more damaging to a child's development than physical and/or sexual abuse. In families who have the latter, there is invariably the former, but neglect of emotional needs, inconsistency, manipulation, role-reversal, etc.- all the stuff your mother did - they are the worst.
Posted by littleone on December 2, 2004, at 14:00:48
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:14:27
Dinah,
I probably didn't articulate myself as well as I would have liked and looked up one of my (many!) books. Below is a link that will (hopefully) take you to the amazon preview pages of a book called "Adult Children of Abusive Parents" by Steven Farmer. If you look at the preview of page 5, it talks a bit about Emotional Abuse
www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345363884/ref=sib_dp_bod_ex/104-8920229-0030313?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00I#reader-page
I can highly recommend this book (although I understand your psych book collection is already quite large).
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2004, at 14:06:24
In reply to Re: Wow! I said it! » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on December 1, 2004, at 18:26:59
I'm working through all that right now. And most of all I'm trying to accept that I am who I am, and I don't have to justify that. A simple enough concept, but hard to put into practice, eh?
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 2, 2004, at 21:06:15
In reply to Pfinstegg, Sunny, Littleone, posted by Dinah on December 2, 2004, at 14:06:24
Except one thing, Dinah. I do believe that once one accepts and grieves one's painful childhood circumstances, it frees the person to grow so much more than they would have been able to otherwise. Well, and when I DON'T believe that, my T reminds me that he does!
Posted by Dinah on December 2, 2004, at 23:26:21
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg, Sunny, Littleone » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on December 2, 2004, at 21:06:15
I think mine gets annoyed at all the reminding he must do.
This is the end of the thread.
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