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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DonE on January 3, 2005, at 23:55:16
My situation is simple. I will never again love and will never again be loved. This isn't some episodic response to a recently failed relationship. I was warned about this in myths as a child, but I went ahead and opened my eyes. The religious myths said if I ever turned my back on this particular myth of love, I would be better off to never have been born.
What happened to me is I repeatedly peaked, until I could look into the light without flinching. Looking into the "light" of scientific discovery, I eventually understood that love is nothing more than aggressive behavior by an extremely socialized species. The bonding rituals I once saw as love are typical of several species, including ours, and in each case, they are nothing more than an evolution of territorial defense behavior.
I could probably, with practice, let people "love" me, but I'm too honest. When people look in my eyes, they see something like a thousand yard stare, or a lack of dilation that reveals to them I will look through their ritualized behavior to see the core animal behavior beneath. Nobody but nobody can face this. I settle for superficial relationships that don't offend others with the realizations I have faced.
There is little a psychotherapist could do for me but mumble some meaningless "tell me more..." The few I've spoken with can not rebut my assertion that love is a byproduct of animal aggression because their training tells them it is true. Their art is more oriented toward maintaining illusions, not toward helping people to cope once they have awoken from illusion.
So here I am, unloved and loveless. My aging parents still maintain attachments, which I honor. But they know from years of experience my attachments only run so deep.
I guess my "love" is not really all that dead, but the territory I defend with this aggression we call love has expanded to include the whole world and my entire species, with no distinction for my family or friends. I can't imagine why anyone would care about my lack of feeling in this feeling-oriented society, but this seemed like a place to mention such a situation, for what it is worth.
Posted by Toph on January 4, 2005, at 10:20:02
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by DonE on January 3, 2005, at 23:55:16
Don, from your subject heading, are you trying to obtain the status of Buddha? The 6 Perfections: 1] generosity, 2] ethics, 3] patience, 4] effort, 5] concentration, and 6] wisdom all seem noble to me. It is conspicuous that love is missing from the list. You seem to know and accept yourself, and have thought this out thoroughly. I can understand that love of another person need not be an essential part of contentment and worth. But though you so fervently deny feelings of love, the interest you have in this world and this species has me feeling loved.
Toph
Posted by Bobby on January 4, 2005, at 12:50:16
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by DonE on January 3, 2005, at 23:55:16
1st Corinthians chapter 13
p.s. killer Steely Dan song--Bodhisattva
Posted by DonE on January 4, 2005, at 15:24:38
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » DonE, posted by Bobby on January 4, 2005, at 12:50:16
> 1st Corinthians chapter 13
>
>
>
> p.s. killer Steely Dan song--Bodhisattva
>As a simple matter of history, the person who wrote that letter to the Corinthians living with memories of his own violent past. His "love" might have been the ongoing expression of aggression he had previously directed at those he persecuted. Suffice it to say, I am but tinkling brass -- nothing more grand.
Toph, I don't know what I am trying to achieve. I became interested in that Bhodisattva concept when I realized I could enjoy intimate relationships, if only I turned my back on the suffering of others. The typical pattern I saw for intimate relationships involved personal efforts between two people to get along, occassionally, while they participate in sexual and economic partnerships. And I realized that the economic partnerships that build "healthy" relationships usually involved exploiting other economic classes and deliberately ignoring the suffering of others. And I realized that many in our time, especially those in non-Western nations, suffer because of desires our Western culture aggressively promotes.
Now I can't even convince myself I am doing anything about how others suffer, except that I minimize my participation in things that might cause that suffering. I am more willing to let well-off folks suffer by seeing me cold, hungry and disillusioned with their grand culture than I am to participate in causing the suffering of lower economic classes by taking advantage of their labor.
At most, I am a sentient witness to a beating heart inside a lump of mud that is animated by history written in my DNA. Perhaps if we lived in more culturally stable times I would feel comfortable having an intimate partner without feeling like my partnership was at the expense of others.
Posted by borderliner on January 8, 2005, at 23:59:37
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by DonE on January 3, 2005, at 23:55:16
Love is important. Religic myths... no thanks.
I also feel its important to be open enough to accept.
I think u are somehow hindered in your ability to accept. Look back over ur past n i bet u'll see the pattern, ask yourself "if i had accepted the situation would it have effected me this much." And u cant say situations havent affected you. You wouldnt have remembered them to begin with.
Agressiveness is a primal instinct for protection. Your past relationships would only have been aggressive due to either party being hindered emotionally and or mentally. You dont experience aggressivenes with love. They dont mix unless its sexual hehe. The way u handle ur relationships sounds inethical. im glad i only have to experience your type in places like this. Helps me realise that we arent all just human. There is more and u know it. Love helps someone acknowledge it.thank you for reminding how important it is that people are more f*cked up than i am.
Posted by Toph on January 9, 2005, at 10:02:42
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » DonE, posted by borderliner on January 8, 2005, at 23:59:37
Have another line for me, dude.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2005, at 18:39:29
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva liner, posted by Toph on January 9, 2005, at 10:02:42
> The way u handle ur relationships sounds inethical. im glad i only have to experience your type in places like this.
>
> thank you for reminding how important it is that people are more f*cked up than i am.
>
> borderliner> Have another line for me, dude.
>
> TophPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by borderliner on January 9, 2005, at 20:11:30
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva liner, posted by Toph on January 9, 2005, at 10:02:42
must be the reboxetine.
Posted by Toph on January 10, 2005, at 9:35:28
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva liner » Toph, posted by borderliner on January 9, 2005, at 20:11:30
Sorry, I thought you were being a little intolerant, but we're only allowed to think these things here.
Toph
Posted by borderliner on January 10, 2005, at 9:44:35
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva liner » borderliner, posted by Toph on January 10, 2005, at 9:35:28
i apologise for my point of fiew the other day and blame no one but myself. i am currently trying to find a synchronisation of meds and have been a lil off key during adjustment. im a strong beleiver that people should have the right to life, how they like. it was ironic of me to criticise someone else when my day to day activities arent considered normal by society as yet. sorry.
Borderliner
This is the end of the thread.
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