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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jen Star on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to My husband keeps losing control :-(, posted by pinkeye on July 16, 2005, at 17:12:05
Oh PInkeye,
I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this - period. You don't. Even if you instigate an argument, he has NO RIGHT to hit you! Even if you insult him, call him names, or yell -- he NEVER has a right to hit you.I'm so sorry. I think that the support of family members would be the right thing to do, if you trust that they will help you. Some families might be of them "ignore it" or "you probably deserved it" variety. If you suspect your family might do that (and I hope they don't!) then you need to find someone else to trust. Can you tell your T?
Pinkeye, I'm worried for you! What do you see right now as your best option? Would you be open to divorce?
(((pinkeye)))
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: Thanks so much everyone.. » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on July 17, 2005, at 18:52:16
Pinkeye,
I think that it's a looooong road to emotional strength and independence for a woman who is used to being dominated and is afraid of being alone.But I think you're taking the first step by telling us here. I hope you're strong enough to keep taking steps, even if it's slow, until you get to a place where you are free and happy and confident.
I see from reading your notes that you've given up because it's hard. You say that it's "karma" that you're treated badly. It's not karma, it's YOUR CHOICE. It's as simple as that, and as hard as that.
If you want to keep getting hit, you'll stay. If you want to stop getting hit, you'll leave. I know you said that you rely on him for strength, that's he's good a lot of the time, etc. But that's all just rationalization. The unknown is scary, and it's hard to be alone. But you're making a choice. Life doesn't just happen, you choose it. And if you elect not to do anything, that's a choice too.
Pinkeye,
I like you and I worry about you. If you go back to India, I believe the domination and hitting will get worse, because (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe that the patriarchal society in India tacitly approves of men hitting their wives, or at least doesn't discourage it as actively as in the USA. I hope that I'm wrong, but from what I've read, domestic abuse can be a big issue in India.It sounds like you have a difficult choice. I hope you have the strength to do what's right for YOU.
Take care of yourself, Pinkeye!
(((pinkeye)))
JenStar
Posted by messadivoce on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Let us end this thread.. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 17, 2005, at 21:58:17
Pinkeye, even though Happyflower was upset, I think she has a really good point. What makes her different from you? You are a good person! You don't deserve to be hit any more than Happyflower did, or anyone else on this board. You think that you deserve this kind of treatment, that you are making it happen. You are not that powerful!!! We cannot control the actions of others!!! All we can do is control what WE do. If YOU treat yourself crappy then you are giving everyone else an excuse to do the same!
I know you do not want to leave your husband, and I can understand that. I do think, however, that calling a hotline and just telling someone what is happening to you would be helpful. Your husband has a lot of power over you to keep you from telling people what is happening. I do fear for your safety, because right now your husband has no reason to stop. IMHO, you need to give him a clear reason to stop. People who are more trained and knowledgeable than I can tell you how to do this.
Pinkeye, you say you don't have the strength to do this, but you do!! You have gone through so much difficult stuff, and you have managed to come through it an intelligent, kind, insightful person. You have more strength in you than you know.
Hugs to you.
Voce
Posted by Jazzed on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Let us end this thread.. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 17, 2005, at 21:58:17
Have you told your T about this pinkeye? I think you really need to share this information with her. It sounds to me like you're afraid to leave the current situation because you fear there will never be another husband for you, even though it's a potentially dangerous situation. You are young, and there is so much hope for the future.
I hope this never happens, but it's where my mind has taken me. It might not seem dangerous now, but I hope you will give some thought to when you're isolated in India away from your family, have children, and what IF the hitting doesn't stop and he no longer apologizes. What if he abuses the children? Please tell your family and your T.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but thinking about the future seems like a must.
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: MAJOR TRIGGER WARNINGS ABOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted by happyflower on July 17, 2005, at 21:22:57
Posted by crazy teresa on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to My husband keeps losing control :-(, posted by pinkeye on July 16, 2005, at 17:12:05
Pinkeye,
Have you ever thought that you don't need a man to survive? It sounds as though you may need to be alone for a while to heal from bad realtionships with men. I don't mean that you deserve to be alone, because you don't. Just take some time for yourself, learn that you don't deserve this type of treatment and start over in a healthy way with men.
crazy t
Posted by crazy teresa on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: My husband keeps losing control :-( » pinkeye, posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2005, at 11:16:05
Everything that has been said to pinkeye applies to you as well! Tell someone and begin the ending of this cycle!
crazy t
Posted by pinkeye on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: My husband keeps losing control :-( » pinkeye, posted by crazy teresa on July 18, 2005, at 10:56:24
Thanks a lot everyone..
I am sorry to sound so stupid, but really, I don't have courage to do anything now about it.. I don't want to tell my parents, I don't want to call a hotline or report, and I don't want to even think of a divorce. I just can't stay alone.. and I will suffer more if I stay alone. I have been alone before and it was hell. I can't go back to that. And I can't go back to my parents, because what would happen is I would end up serving as a companion again for my dad, and it would end up to more complications and problems for me. And I just don't have the courage to even think of being able to live alone by myself or to find someone again. It just seems impossible to me.
My T knows about this. and she gives me the same feedbacks that you give. BUt I have only 2 more sessions with her and I don't know what good it will do to bring it up again. And I cannot stop going back to India - I have already commited, and it would end up in a big problem if I want to stay here.. And I might have more support in India because my family is there and I might end up feeling courageous.
My husband is a nice guy basically, and I think with time and effort he will realize it.. even today, he was crying in my lap, and I had to console him. I have been trying to put more sense into him for a few years now in different ways, and he is picking up. He is basically a smart and good guy, so there is plenty of hope for me to correct him in the future.. I just need patience.
You guys have been very supportive to me.. Thanks so much.
Posted by Shortelise on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to My husband keeps losing control :-(, posted by pinkeye on July 16, 2005, at 17:12:05
Pinkeye, it takes such a long time to help someone learn not to act out as their parents before them have done. It takes a long time to understand where it comes from.
There are ways that men learn not to abuse. One of the things they learn is that when they feel like abusing, they should go for a walk until it subsides.
Something you might try is when you see he is getting to the point of becoming violent, try to change how you are reacting. Try to think of how he is preceiving things, sort of like, don't wave the red flag in front of the bull. Please don't misunderstand me - it's not your responsibilty to keep him from abusing you, you are not responsible for him abusing you and the only person who can stop him is him.
I am telling you these things because I hear you, you are not going to leave your husband, or change your lives in any major way. That is your choice. So, given that, you could try to find out about abuse and abusers and see if you two together can find a way of helping him find a safe outlet for his anger. And you for yours. It sounds like you get physical too.
Hope I'm not being too frank. Or too politically incorrect. Feel free to ream me out.
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Thanks everyone.., posted by pinkeye on July 18, 2005, at 14:38:46
You do realize that his behavior is so typical of abusive men that it's almost a stereotype? Isn't it a bit hard to believe someone's sincerity when a hotline representative could probably predict his behavior before you even told him or her?
I think ShortElise had some good advice for you.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone.. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2005, at 20:26:46
Its a hard one...
I can see why you are reluctant to leave. Or to make a big deal of it. Because it isn't like it is THAT bad and a lot of people get worse. And he is basically a nice guy. And can be sweet at other times...
But...
It sounds like what has been happening has been happening repeatedly for a while now. Why on earth should he stop? He gets to hit you and you don't tell anyone because you feel ashamed. Secrecy is part of it. Part of his control of you. Do you ever do things because you are afraid he will hit you if you don't do it? Do you ever refrain from doing things because you are afraid he will hit you if you do them? How is he with respect to you going out by yourself or with your friends? How much do you do that kind of stuff? How much control does he have over your life? Because I think it tends to be about control. And if he is acting out to the point of hitting you then there may well be a lot of other more covert ways in which he is controlling you as well.
IMO...
You need to tell somebody. Is there anyway you can go see a councellor or someone to deal with this issue? That way he has to face up to having to admit to somebody else that he hits his wife. Because at the moment he either doesn't have to do that, or he can do it in a jokey way with people who approve of it. It is unacceptable. If you can give him an ultimatum to work on this properly so it stops or thats it - then that is when you are likely to be able to change the situation.But... It sounds like you are really afraid of not being with him. My guess is that he sees that. And that he sees full well that so long as things remain that way he has no reason on earth to change.
He should feel ashamed.
Not you.
Posted by crazy teresa on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone.., posted by alexandra_k on July 19, 2005, at 3:58:14
Posted by B2chica on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Thanks everyone.., posted by pinkeye on July 18, 2005, at 14:38:46
i'd help you in a heartbeat.
if you change your mind and decide to stay (get out) just babblemail me.
b2c.
Posted by Jen Star on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to My husband keeps losing control :-(, posted by pinkeye on July 16, 2005, at 17:12:05
hi pinkeye,
I just wanted to say that I hope you're doing OK getting ready for the move. I know that you said you don't want to leave your husband, and I hope that things work out so that you have a happy, contented, safe and anxiety-free life in India.Please keep posting. I know that I and others offered you STRONG advice about leaving/etc. BUT -- we all still like and value you, even if you don't leave. We are here for you to vent, share your frustrations, gripe, cry and ask for advice (even if you don't take it.) Please don't stop coming to babble.
It's sad for me to see you living in what I assume to be a "trapped" environment, but I also know the world is bigger than my imagination and there are all kinds of lives and compromises, and that things take time. And even though I'm sad for you, I don't want to judge you. So I hope you don't feel judged by coming here. I think you're a cool, fun, interesting and smart person.
take care of yourself!
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to thinking of you, Pinkeye! :) » pinkeye, posted by Jen Star on July 19, 2005, at 13:14:53
Thanks for the support... I don't have any status change.. And I don't know if I ever will have the courage to leave a marriage.. It needs lot of strength and courage and kind of liking myself to be able to do it, and I don't have all that.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Thanks everyone again » Jen Star, posted by pinkeye on July 19, 2005, at 20:16:19
> I don't know if I ever will have the courage to leave a marriage.. It needs lot of strength and courage and kind of liking myself to be able to do it, and I don't have all that.
The funny thing is that it doesn't have to be a categorical imperitive. You don't have to leave. It just needs to be hypothetical - IF you keep hitting me THEN I will leave, so I suggest you work on figuring out ways of dealing with your sh*t so that you won't be hitting me anymore.But the force of that... Only works if you can deliver unpleasant consequences if he chooses to keep hitting you. An alternative might be possible... How about couples councelling? He probably won't like that... That might be enough of a deterrant.
I do worry for you.
I worry because it is indeed more culturally accepted in India for husbands to get away with whatever and wives are expected to just deal with that. I have heard of 4 or 5 people meeting people from India, marrying them, and going back there to live. They were hit occasionally in NZ. When they returned to India the situation got much worse. It was hard because their husbands could be really sweet and sensitive and kind at other times.Its just about seeing that he really does appreciate that it is unacceptable.
Not that he is all sweet to you afterwards.
But that he is making an honest effort to stop it.
Until you get that reassurance
(only time will tell with respect to whether his behaviour improves)
Then you really do have no assurance that the situation won't get worse if you go off to india.I'm sorry.
Please forgive me if I'm just upsetting you...
I'm just concerned.
I don't want you to end up having kids
End up having to watch him hit your kids
End up trapped.
More literally trapped than you feel at present...You do have huge issues with self-esteem...
Sometimes it isn't so much that one has to get better there BEFORE one can do certain things.
Sometimes it is that one has to do something really really hard IN ORDER to improve ones self-esteem.Sounds like your friend quite likes to feel better than you...
And that keeps you feeling like everyone in the world is better than you.
Sounds like your husband thinks its ok to hit you...
And that keeps you thinking that you don't deserve any better in your life.Putting a stop to sh*t like that is precisely how one comes to taking positive steps towards having self esteem and respect for oneself.
Really.
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Thanks everyone again » Jen Star, posted by pinkeye on July 19, 2005, at 20:16:19
Hi pinkeye,
I was really sorry to read what's been happening to you. It does take courage to leave, but also, things sometimes get so bad for people that there's no other choice, it's leave or die or live in misery. I hate being alone. I left my marriage well over a year ago, and the marriage itself was horrible for many years, so bad that the children really suffered, I think, from emotional trauma. When you do go back to India, try not to close all doors behind you in the States. I understand women in India are still seen as disposable commodities to many men, and husbands maiming wives, and even murder, isn't as uncommon as it is here. Your husband may be better here than he will be in India; society does have an effect on people, so him knowing that the way he treats you isn't acceptable here may be masking an attitude which may become more prevalent once back in India.
Be careful.
I hope your fear of being alone subsides with time. And you can make a better choice for yourself in your life. And I know because being alone is very very harsh, for me, I absolutely want to die, sometimes I think being dead is better than all the time I spend alone, and I get so depressed.. it's just me I guess, I want people around me... but on the whole I'm a healthier person away from the ex-. It wasn't easy. If you get to the point where you absolutely have to leave him because you can't take it, you will find the strength and the courage you think you don't have now. I believe that, and I believe in you, too; you'll be able to build a good life.
Posted by Susan47 on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone again » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on July 19, 2005, at 21:02:42
This is what happened to me, tonight. I wanted to see my children, to touch them and hug them and say goodnight.. and my ex- wouldn't allow me. Because we had children, we divorced, and I wasn't working and going through so much personal trauma I didn't have the strength to fight, he ended up getting everything he wanted, which included the children.
I can honestly say if I could live it again I wouldn't have started any relationship with him at all because I knew from the beginning, all the signs were there, that it was a mistake. You seem to be saying that over and over again. If you think it hurts now, I can guarantee you it will hurt more if you have children with this man. And then it will be hurting the children as well. Just a thought. I expect you won't take kindly to it, I understand that too. Put it down to me venting. I hope I didn't upset you unnecessarily. Take good care.
Posted by crazy teresa on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on July 19, 2005, at 21:44:01
Posted by Jen Star on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Thanks everyone again » Jen Star, posted by pinkeye on July 19, 2005, at 20:16:19
Pinkeye,
I hope you can start liking yourself more. You are a worthy person, a good person. I truly wish you happiness and a good life. I feel so at a loss -- I don't know what kind of advice to offer, or what words would help. But just know that I'm thinking about you, like many others here, and hoping that things get better for you.JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone again » pinkeye, posted by Jen Star on July 19, 2005, at 23:44:26
Thanks a lot everyone again..
I couldn't leave.. and I don't think I can ever get the guts to leave and make a better life..
I feel my husband basically wants to be a good guy.. and I decided to somehow make him realize it himself how bad his doings are.. So I told him what I read about abusive men.. how the pattern repeats - how they hit, and then say sorry and apologize and cry, and go back to hitting again after a month. He said he will consider therapy if it persists. He thinks he might get over it if we go back to India, but I don't think so. Because just 3 - 4 days back, I had completely said ok to going back, even he watned to stay here for some more time, but I was telling him that we needed to go back atleast for 6 months. So I don't think it has anything to do with India/US.
But I am planning to educate him more myself, and see if that would help. I have been trying to do that a lot these past few years.. I have been trying to put some sense into him in every oppurtunity that I get.. (thanks to a suggestion I had from my ex T).. and hopefully, it will solve things.
I am sorry about not replying to individual posters.. I am just drained of energy a little bit. Thanks so much for your concern and support and offer to help. I am not in a dire situation.. I am working, and have some money in the bank for myself, I have a Green Card, and I have lot of relatives in India who I can go to for help if needed. So there is no need to go to women shelter or anything for now. Worst case, I can catch the next plane to India and go back to my family and refuse to go to my husband again. He doesn't have much social support in India - not too many relatives, but I do. There are lots of people who will come to help me if needed. And in my town, I am very respected, and my family is well known, so there really is no issue of being afraid for my safety if I go back.
Posted by pinkeye on July 22, 2005, at 0:51:26
In reply to Thanks again.. something I did to educate hubby, posted by pinkeye on July 20, 2005, at 14:03:58
Actually if I go to India, I will be in a highly advantageous position.. In a way, I am the darling child for my extended family and relatives.. since I came out of the town, and made it all through by myself, and studied well etc.. and they are very proud of me and the fact that I made it to the top most company in the world coming from a tiny uneducated circle of families and they all look up to me to offer advice for their kids and so on.. I am also at extremely good terms with all my relatives, and they all like me a lot. So there is absolutely no way, anyone is going to tolerate my husband laying hands on me.. Only because I want to be in the US, I am being silent and helpless, because I don't have anyone here. But I don't have to be here in the worst case.
So don't worry about my safety. The only thing that I am afraid of is, if my husband gets mad and injures me a lot while being here, and before I have a chance to get to some family, but I think the chance of it happening is extremely slim.
Posted by 64bowtie on July 22, 2005, at 22:26:02
In reply to My husband keeps losing control :-(, posted by pinkeye on July 16, 2005, at 17:12:05
Have you noticed that children shift directly from conflict to violence, in a single step?
Rod
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 3:10:46
In reply to Re: Thanks again.. something I did to educate hubby » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on July 20, 2005, at 14:11:38
Ok. Thats different from the situations I have heard of. I didn't realise you had family and connections in India already. The cases I have heard of are when a Kiwi marries and goes with her new husband back to india. Then there can be difficulties because they don't have any connections over there. Nobody to talk to except people from the husbands family and then they are typically unsympathetic.
Sounds like you are doing well with talking about this stuff to him.
We are just worried about you.
I know you think you could never leave...
But if it continues I hope to god you do.
Not just for you...
But for your kids.
Posted by crazy teresa on July 24, 2005, at 10:57:11
In reply to Re: Thanks again.. something I did to educate hubby, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 3:10:46
pinkeye,
My mom told me this story a long time ago.
My father raised his hand to strike my mother early in their marriage. She said to him, "Go ahead you son-of-a-bitch, some day you'll come home drunk and I'll tie your *ss to the bed and beat you with a ball bat."
He never raised his hand to her again.
teresa
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