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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64bowtie on August 26, 2005, at 3:23:52
Relationships depend on these three traits, Responsibility, Accountability, and Leadership...
These traits are also required for citizenship... and Adulthood... Do I think citizenship requires adulthood??? Yes, and so does the Government!!!
So, do we fail our children by NOT demanding they become adults??? Yes, again!!!
Is violent behavior toward our family members bad citizenship??? Yes!!! See??? Its all tied together!!!
Wife beaters and child molestors have bad citizenship, so why do we treat them like adults??? Why do we put up with bad behavior from family members instead of demanding they become adults and practice good citizenship???
Adulthood implies responsibility
Citizenship implies accountability
Leadership requires healthy boundary managementRelationships, in order to be healthy, require:
1. Adulthood for responsible and civil behavior
2. Citizenship for being accountable to each other
3. Healthy boundaries for traction, so both parties have something of substance to hold ontoSuggested modality: work at it, patiently while furvently, incessantly while lovingly!!!
Rod
Posted by crazy teresa on August 29, 2005, at 15:46:45
In reply to Responsibility, Accountability, and Leadership, posted by 64bowtie on August 26, 2005, at 3:23:52
Have you read the book "Changes That Heal"?
Posted by 64bowtie on August 30, 2005, at 13:23:45
In reply to Re: Responsibility, Accountability, and Leadership » 64bowtie, posted by crazy teresa on August 29, 2005, at 15:46:45
Thanx for your response... I won't cross swords with anything he does submit as useful to recovery... I do find myself wanting since he leaves out 'Citizenship', something that some therapists don't seem to see as important... Another concern of mine is how he flatly encourages CHANGE, yet I have found that to be the citidel of all and any recovery... I found the hardest thing for clients to overcome is their own inertia... Ergo, any change takes an enormous amount of energy to initiate... No matter if the client is not moving at all, moving fast, or spinning out of control, change is necessary and begins, very grudgingly...
The culprit is our inborn/innate 'avoidance-of-dissatisfaction', which causes infants to cry out when hungry or wet (diaper), young adults to complain, grumble and gossip, and the elderly shame and blame others while avoiding outside contact...
This 'avoidance-of-dissatisfaction' has the sublime effect of blocking change, any change that we might entertain... In effect, we see any change coming our way as a LOSS; 'CHANGE MEANS LOSS', at a visceral level, a level beyond our the control of our feelings...
Like I said I am not crossing swords, but expressing concern that his book doesn't go far enough into the subject of change...
Again, thanx for adding Dr. Cloud's book to the discussion...
Rod
Posted by crazy teresa on August 31, 2005, at 2:13:03
In reply to Re: Thanx » crazy teresa, posted by 64bowtie on August 30, 2005, at 13:23:45
True, the book is pretty basic. When I first read it, I was at a point in my life where some of the concepts were completely foreign to me. I was amazed someone should actually suggest that it's not my responsiblity to make or keep others happy; it was quite an epiphany and I loved the power I was able to take back for myself (perhaps this could be why Dr. Bob and I haven't seen eye to eye lately!) Had it been much deeper I'm not sure I would have been able to find the courage to go ahead and try doing what is suggested, as I was not and had never been in therapy at the time.
I would add to the 'avoidance-of-dissatisfaction' the presence of diminishing returns. When we reach some kind of satisfaction, we're no longer satisfied but don't understand why we're not.
How would one go about not treating another as a citizen should he not deserve citizenship? Would this be like enforcing the concept of 'you don't work, you don't eat'?
Thanks for your insights.
crazy t
Posted by 64bowtie on September 3, 2005, at 0:42:33
In reply to Re: Thanx » 64bowtie, posted by crazy teresa on August 31, 2005, at 2:13:03
When I say citizenship, I don't mean legal status... The kind of citizenship I am refering to is similar to the civility that Dr-Bob demands of us here-in... If the phrase 'citizenship' seems confusing, try picturing it as civil behavior, absent of violence and coercion...
Sounds like you 'get-it' about 'avoidance-of-dissatisfaction' as a primal erge that effects us all... As adults, we can perfect habits to mediate the negative effects of this (albeit) survival trait... When we are 20, or 30, or 40 etc., and we insist on continueing childlike behavior, we miss great opportunities to use our powerful faculties, attributes and skills as adults, that weren't available to us as children... For this reason, I do not miss my younger years that were full of blissful ignorance of my real power...
Keep up the good work...
Rod
This is the end of the thread.
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