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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by happyflower on May 10, 2006, at 11:22:27
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 8:57:58
I can explain in my situation, my DH is having it with someone else besides me.
Posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 12:53:01
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by happyflower on May 10, 2006, at 11:22:27
>> I can explain in my situation, my DH is having it with someone else besides me.
** I hope you are kidding. If it is true, how do you deal with it?
However, I wouldn't put it past myself to do it either because I have more poor judgement and lack of conscience than anyone else on the planet. It is only a matter of time. What I need, I take. My own self-gratification is often more important than anything else. What a despicable, loathsome creep I am. I could easily shift into a sex addiction topic in this thread.
Posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 14:20:39
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 8:57:58
I seem to be the last one to understand whats going on - certainly my thereapist hasn't a clue as well.
Our relationship is close - very close - soulmates, in fact. If anything, our relationship was hyper-sexual in the beginning. We still find each other attractive. Over the past 10 years or so, sex has dwindled to nothing. We talk about it, say that we should do it ... and then nothing ever happens.
And believe me, I want it to happen. I started HRT (testosterone) treatment - for middle age recently - and my libido is back to that of an 18 year old boy. She has take testosterone for years for the same thing.
But there's always an excuse why not. Granted they are viable excuses at the time - but you think we could have squeezed out a short romantic interlude amongst all the chaos and pain. But to no avail. And no, she is not seeing anyone else.
It really has destroyed my self-esteem. I may be a bit older (53), but am still OK looking and in good shape. It just makes me feel very very worthless.
I think I'm just going to have to resign myself to accept it for what it is. I'm not going to seek sex anywhere else - as I love her very much. But it really hurts in ways I cannot even begin to describe.
Posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 14:53:13
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 14:20:39
I feel like I am dragging this thread on longer than I should...but
I know how you feel about the self-esteem, although it has not been as long, but I have an addiction. I am highly susceptible to addictions and my self-esteem is very vulnerable. That is why many bipolars use one to get the other.
I can't go long without sex before my emotions get in the way. At one point I had eight online adult dating accounts (never got any replies.)
Geez I'm bad. Somebody slap my wanker!This makes me uneasy but I'm giving it a shot. The more I information I disclose, the more vulnerable I feel. I can always go back to my hiding place..
Posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 16:18:37
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 14:53:13
I guess I'm sort of hijacking your thread. Sorry, but your post made me realize how HORRIBLE I've been feeling about these things for past years.
I feel like the "elephant man" even though I am not - I'm certain most people passing me on the street would expect the total opposite.
I guess its a good example of how one aspect of our lives (sexuality) can affect us so profoundly. Its not that I can't get any per se, but rather why I could be in a "good" marraige for many years, want sex, and have nothing. It makes me feel like some kind of mutant.
I've forgotten what it is like to be wanted. I'll get off my pity-pot now. Perhaps its because its my birthday today (53) and I feel old and useless - though its probably totally far from the reality.
Posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 16:30:53
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 16:18:37
>> Perhaps its because its my birthday today (53)
** I just posted a question earlier about birthdays...
Please redirect yourself to -
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20060503/msgs/642236.html
and Happy birthday!
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2006, at 22:27:14
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by curtm on May 10, 2006, at 16:30:53
> >> Perhaps its because its my birthday today (53)
>
> ** I just posted a question earlier about birthdays...Synchronicity, curt. It's cool when it happens.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2006, at 22:27:59
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 16:18:37
Posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 16:01:27
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by jonquiljo on May 10, 2006, at 16:18:37
even the Elephant Man had some good qualities. I'm sorry about the situation with your wife. My husband and I have been through dry spells, but now we try to make it more important in our lives--like planning a romantic evening w/candles when the kids aren't home. But the best thing is to try and get away together, alone. I've found that works best. I'm the one who could go forever w/o sex, or at least I think that way until it happens and I feel so much closer to my husband. It's easy to get trapped in that mindset.
Can you really talk to your wife? If you've tried a million times, try again and let her know how important this is.
Wow, I hope I didn't get too personal. This isn't like me.
best,
antigua
Posted by jonquiljo on May 11, 2006, at 16:13:20
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 16:01:27
Not too personal at all - or I would be posting all of this here. I'll reply better later as I am on my way out the door right now. Thanks for replying at all, antigua - its the kind of post that most people feel reluctant to respond to. I can understand that.
Posted by curtm on May 11, 2006, at 16:24:32
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » jonquiljo, posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 16:01:27
** I have been under the false pretense apparently by thinking men and women are generally equal in their desire for sex. In reality, women generally have a lower libido than men, right? Why is that? Is it strictly biological or do men tend to influence their own libido through such false pretense?
>> I'm the one who could go forever w/o sex,
** Do you understand why you feel that way?
** I just want to understand a woman's libido better.
Posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 17:00:28
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » antigua, posted by curtm on May 11, 2006, at 16:24:32
well, my libido is certainly lowered by the AD I'm on, but even before that my husband's was stronger--except for our early, young days together when it seemed more even. Having children certainly gets in the way. But mostly for me it's the relationship. If I'm annoyed at my husband, and he tries to be friendly, I know he just wants sex and it has nothing to do with being nice to me at all. He needs to be nicer to me in regular life, and in truth it makes me want him more.
I also experienced csa and that has been hard to conquer in my relationship with my husband, but I think we've done a good job. Sex is definitely better than it was 10 years ago.
antigua, who's blushing at all of her disclosures
Posted by jonquiljo on May 12, 2006, at 15:19:16
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » curtm, posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 17:00:28
Antigua,
Sorry - csa is rough. I'm glad you've found some ways to deal with it. It sounds like your husband is a really nice guy. All men want to have sex all the time (most men) - its kind of hormonal - so I can understand why he sometimes wants to be "nice". Of course in regular life it would make you want him more.
Its kind of sad the biological difference that make men more libidinous than women - at least indiscriminantly so. Since sex is better now than it was 10 years ago - thats a plus.
My situation is difficult. I think there are major issues in my marriage that I must just accept for being the way they are. I'm pretty convinced that things most likely will never change. While thats terribly unfortunate - sometime unfortunate must be accepted. And believe me, I am not a passive person. Since I truly love my wife - I probably must accept the way it is - since leaving is not an option for me. It doesn't make it less frustrating, however. Oh well - I'm in my 50's and had many good sexual years. Probably its kind of like losing a limb - I need to accept things and move on. Crying in my soup won't do me any good.
Just trying to make the best of my very limited options.
Posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 15:45:53
In reply to Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by curtm on May 9, 2006, at 16:30:32
I can always take matters "into my own hands."
OOOh- sorry. too much information
Posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » curtm, posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 15:45:53
er... how come you guys don't try talking to your wives?
i'm serious.
to say some of what you said here.
maybe even to write it down and give it to them.that you like them and you really wish it was part of your relationship...
and that it doesn't seem so important to them...
and do they think something is missing there too?
because i'm not so sure that it is as simple as 'most women could do without it' and 'most men need it all the time'. i think people vary.
csa can make things hard...
and there are other things that can make it hard too.
there are other things you can do as well to feel intimate. massage and stuff like that...
and sex therapy...
but i'd say talk to them first.
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:18:56
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
Look, I've talked my wife under the table. She wants no more talk out of me (not true, just felt compelled etc). 30 bloody years of talk. You grow close, you love each other, are good friends, and sex goes out the window. The last thing you need is more talk. Just trying to cheer myself up again...pay no attention.
Declan
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:24:03
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
what does csa stand for?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 12, 2006, at 22:31:32
In reply to And uh..., posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:24:03
> what does csa stand for?
childhood sexual abuse
Posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 23:51:53
In reply to Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by curtm on May 9, 2006, at 16:30:32
The more I talk about it, the more I realize what it is I'm tryng to say.
I guess to put it simply, its a "trigger"
And f***, I happened to have the thread up on the computer when I went to make my kid a sandwich and she read the whole f;in thread. I had some serious explaining to do. Gddmit! I had an anxiety attack. She thought it was about her. It's about me, not her.
*******************People that aren't like us just don't understand.
Please RSVP anyone
Posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 23:54:15
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:18:56
> Look, I've talked my wife under the table. She wants no more talk out of me (not true, just felt compelled etc). 30 bloody years of talk. You grow close, you love each other, are good friends, and sex goes out the window. The last thing you need is more talk. Just trying to cheer myself up again...pay no attention.
er...
i mean talk to her about why she doesn't seem to want sex.
because... i think most people kind of do like sex. or some kind of physical intimacy...
i'm thinking of a friend i knew. she didn't like sex. she didn't think she liked sex. and there was a lot of conflict about that in her marriage because her husband wanted a lot more... and she said she would be happy without any of that at all.
why?
we talked about that... and part of it was about... him not really knowing what she liked. and she didn't know what she liked really either... but when you haven't had any for a while... then sometimes the guy is fairly keen... and it can hurt. a lot. and so then there was this cycle... of not doing it for a while... then doing it... then it hurting her... then her not wanting to do it... and so on.
they kind of figured some stuff out.
massage. things like that. patience. figuring out what kind of stuff she liked.
but i'm serious about the pain stuff.
and if there is csa in the past... or roughness... or something... then i think sometimes women get put off sex.
and so sometimes it is about just taking it real slow.
and learning other ways of being physically intimate that maybe don't involve penetration. stuff like that...i just meant that it can be a really hard thing to talk about.
because it feels horrible to think that someone we love (who loves us) doesn't want to be intimate in that way.
and it can be a HUGE blow to the self esteem.
I understand that.But being able to talk about it...
Can be the first step.
And really... I can't say enough good things about massage as a form of physical intimacy.
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 23:54:15
Naturally I have already talked to her. When I mentioned this thread and my post she said, 'well, do they (men) really want it that much either?' Meaning, 'if you did, that MIGHT turn me on a bit'.
The way this is conventionally put is that romantic love fades and is replaced by something else...something more mature.
I think it would be easier all round (especially at this end of things) if sexual faithfulness was not so important to us.
Posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
hmm.
well sure i get that some of the excitement wears off...
so i get that people might do it a bit less frequently than they used to...
but i guess i still would have thought that people would want to be intimate with each other sometimes...of course psych meds don't typically do wonders for the libido (that could have a lot to do with it)
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 4:37:02
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
Well, yeah, intimacy, sure.....why would you live with someone if you weren't? But experience comes in all shapes and sizes, and we always want more. This thing we're discussing is as old as the hills. I sure don't want to hand it over to someone to make money out of. Intimacy too comes in all shapes and sizes. Like, maybe....
Declan
Posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 4:43:17
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
Psych meds, growing older, lots of things. Mostly complacency is the problem - its a deviation from the "animal chase." In the beginning, you court one another and sex becomes a very central part of your existence (at least in many couples). Times sets in, the chase becomes more tame.
Now fidelity, which you would expect would foster the expression of more love - does completely the opposite. When your partner fells your fidelity set in, he or she sits more comforatably. They don't feel compelled to compete for your attention anymore - after all, you are theirs faithfully. Then sex goes out the window.
This is just the beginning ... basically sex becomes a habit that is quickly unlearned. Very few people I have known would actually wander outside their marriage for sexual fullfillment - it just isn't why you got into a marraige in the first place. Its when your partner knows they have you is when their interest in sex can wane - and yes, the lazy habits set in as well.
Of course many people have other reasons. Like sometimes your partner does not want to enjoy life - and is basically hell bent in making that part of your problem too. What are you going to do? You're not going to leave - or even stray - the other person means too much to you - you actually do love them dearly. It is very dysfunctional - but thats the way it is. So you start strange hobbies or collecting Porsches - or whatever keeps you sooooo occupied that you don't really let that essential missing component of your life bother you any more than it has to.
I guess thats more information than is necessary - but I think you can get the idea. Isn't love grand?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2006, at 8:18:37
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
> Naturally I have already talked to her. When I mentioned this thread and my post she said, 'well, do they (men) really want it that much either?' Meaning, 'if you did, that MIGHT turn me on a bit'.
> The way this is conventionally put is that romantic love fades and is replaced by something else...something more mature.
> I think it would be easier all round (especially at this end of things) if sexual faithfulness was not so important to us.Being taken for granted is hardly an inspiration to sexual expression, I should think. And I think the taking and being taken are reciprocal. You have to show that there is something else at play. When's the last time you spontaneously told her how much she means to you? When's the last time you snuck her away on a date? Ya know?
I know how crushing it can be to be rebuffed in those circumstances, though. I'm not making any assumptions. Just trying to ask the right question. Some women are happy to let the fire go out. There is no stock answer.
Lar
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