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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MichaelJr on May 14, 2006, at 18:29:10
I see a lot of bad posts from both sides about "all men are this, all women are that. All men suck, all women suck, etc."
I think there are a lot of bad and a lot good in each sex, and we should recognize that everyone is an individual from here on out.
agree?
Posted by Declan on May 15, 2006, at 0:14:13
In reply to a lot of gender tension in here, posted by MichaelJr on May 14, 2006, at 18:29:10
Doesn't it suck? All my life it's been there. From having to listen to cheesy sexist jokes and pretend to smile; being berated by feminists for the sins of men; having to participate in the pathetic male/male communication (swapping deceptions). Just this week in our local paper some fool writes in about all the wars caused by men. I have never understood it, and it is so very boring. It has never been part of me. And with my kids either. I simply think gender roles are not worth the time it takes to notice them.
So there :)
Declan
Posted by jonquiljo on May 15, 2006, at 1:55:01
In reply to a lot of gender tension in here, posted by MichaelJr on May 14, 2006, at 18:29:10
> I think there are a lot of bad and a lot good in each sex, and we should recognize that everyone is an individual from here on out.
>
> agree?
I think we are all already in agreement on that point. We're just discussing our lives. Sorry if I missed it, but I guess I don't see a lot of anger or hostility - just normal human emotion.
Posted by Joan797 on May 15, 2006, at 7:34:15
In reply to a lot of gender tension in here, posted by MichaelJr on May 14, 2006, at 18:29:10
If I say "the ones I have encountered" then is it ok to say men are selfish *ssholes?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2006, at 9:20:04
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » MichaelJr, posted by Joan797 on May 15, 2006, at 7:34:15
> If I say "the ones I have encountered" then is it ok to say men are selfish *ssholes?
You do have to be really careful, please. I cringe at the stereotypes, myself. I am not like that, and I do hurt from it. Even in this example, the target group, i.e. the men you have encountered, is set off from your stereotyped comment, and I felt the stereotype as negative emotion. Just to rephrase what you said, I can live with, "The men I have encountered are selfish *ssholes." Just the way you phrased your question makes a difference to me.
Lar
Posted by curtm on May 15, 2006, at 12:12:08
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2006, at 9:20:04
Posted by Declan on May 15, 2006, at 15:22:06
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » MichaelJr, posted by Joan797 on May 15, 2006, at 7:34:15
Yeah, it's cool with me. I never felt like that much of a man, so it wouldn't apply to me <choke choke> Knitted bedsocks for my father, I did.
Actually, I think nationality differences are more important here. We could always fight about that. Maybe that's what Politics is for.
Declan
Posted by jonquiljo on May 15, 2006, at 21:07:49
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Declan on May 15, 2006, at 15:22:06
yes, a*holes. I can say that and I am a man - at least I was the last time I pulled of my pants.
Many men are a*holes which is why there are so many problems between man and women. Its a role started in tradition, but I think (very slowly) that these traditions may be changing.
I try not to think of it as fighting here but rather a "heated" discussion. Lets just not call each other a*holes - but keep the converstion genuine and lively.
Posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 13:42:37
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2006, at 9:20:04
MANY of the men that I have encountered have *sshole written on their forhead.
A LOT of the men that I have encountered were *ssholes to me but not to other "pretty" "skinny" or "dumb as a rock" women who looked their way.
SOME of the men that I have encountered were *ssholes underneath and brought out their *ssholeness at opportune times.
THE REST of the men that I have encountered, are not *ssholes, and deal with people on a HUMAN level, like you for instance.
Having said that,
MOST of the women that I have encountered can and have been a b*tch in some regard or another.
MANY of the women that I have encountered were this way "IN MY OPINION" because they had at some point in time been mistreated by another person. SOME of those persons were men.
SOME women, SOME STRONG women do not feel the need to be treated as sex objects, money providers, open heart wounded individuals who have no voice, no opinion, and certainly no choice.
In my opinion,
A FEW women appreciate men and women alike.
A FEW men appreciate women and men alike.
Stereotypical phrases do hurt and I do appoligize if mine hurt you.
However, I've had a rough go of it with men and all exceptions present and accounted for, I feel as if many many many many many men could use a little more sensitivity and grace when dealing with women, including me.
Joan
Posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 13:46:20
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Declan on May 15, 2006, at 15:22:06
I have found, in my own experience, that many men from different geographical locations throughout the US and the world do act differently towards women.
Maybe it's their upbringing.
Maybe it's their local's customs.Maybe they were taught to respect women.
Maybe they have bigger hearts.
I don't know, but I do know this, A Texan can call me baby, open my door, pull out my chair, etc......... and still be a cheating, lying, no good SOB when it's all said and done.
People are people and I'm sick of a lot of them.
Joan
Posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 13:47:56
In reply to all men are ......., posted by jonquiljo on May 15, 2006, at 21:07:49
I genuinly think that the world is NOT getting better in gender relations. I think gender relations as well as human relations are moving swiftly downhill towards the "dog eat dog" society we call life.
Posted by curtm on May 16, 2006, at 14:04:46
In reply to Re: all men are ....... » jonquiljo, posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 13:47:56
After my first divorce (I was the defendent) I found myself hateful and desensitized toward all women. I had taken out my anger and held a grudge on all of them as a feeble excuse to blame someone else for something that was my fault. I do that with many things. Only by putting them down I could be elevated to a higher level. In truth I was lowering myself even more. I knew I was doing it, but I didn't care. I was so angry at my ex and hurt. I still haven't spoken to her to this day. I have mellowed out as the years passed, and I don't see things that way anymore. Sorry to all women who read here because you were once in that group. I have since regained a lot of compassion and differentiation.
Posted by Declan on May 16, 2006, at 20:23:38
In reply to all men are ......., posted by jonquiljo on May 15, 2006, at 21:07:49
No, Jonquiljo, truly, you lot are my friends (I have no others, or so few). This is a perfectly reasonable nice conversation between friends. There's not a lot anyone could say about men that would annoy me. No, that's wrong....I spent years being annoyed by university feminism. I dunno; I don't take it all that seriously. The best analysis of contemporary things is by the excellent Todd Solondz. Watched "Happiness" again last night. Lot of fun. One of his earlier films was called "Fear, Anxiety, and Depression", which sounds great, but was apparently not so good.
Declan
Posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 22:59:26
In reply to Re: all men are ....... » Joan797, posted by curtm on May 16, 2006, at 14:04:46
I want to divorce myself from the entire human race. No wait, I'd like to stay married to my dog. She loves me unconditionally.
Posted by Declan on May 16, 2006, at 23:57:50
In reply to Re: all men are ......., posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 22:59:26
I think mammals are a bit suss. You would have seen those docos about mammals. There's the herd, with the women and children, and maybe the males, or maybe the males are on their own. Lots of mating rituals, trials of strength and so on. Compare to the penguin. Takes turns in standing on the ice for 3 months (or something) and one partner finds the way back to the other in the dark, all of them standing there. Or the emu. The female moves on (as we say these days) leaving the male to look after the young. Chooks are a worry though, pecking the weaker to death. And we had some disappointing ducks here...2 females would hang around their drake and peck any other duck who got near. I kinda like cuttlefish (nice eyes) and wonder if things would have been better if molluscs had taken off.
Posted by Joan797 on May 17, 2006, at 8:37:48
In reply to mammals, birds, molluscs » Joan797, posted by Declan on May 16, 2006, at 23:57:50
Afterall, in the animal kingdom, if there are no "feelings, nothing more than feelings" involved, and the female is a more powerful sex, then I say, just eat the male after he doesn his duty.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 9:43:32
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Declan, posted by Joan797 on May 16, 2006, at 13:46:20
> Maybe it's their upbringing.
> Maybe it's their local's customs.What else could it be? I mean, apart from mental defect such as sociopathy, what else would influence these attitudes?
Maybe you should travel a bit. I'm absolutely certain that the Texans you describe are not representative of all men, everywhere.
Lar
Posted by jonquiljo on May 17, 2006, at 13:10:12
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 9:43:32
Wll, when I lived on the east coast (about 25 years ago) there was alot more bias toward women than there is now. Perhaps that is California, perhaps it is the 25 years - I don't know. When I was in grad school, 50% of the PhD candidates were women.
Other (European, etc.) countries are much more enlightened than we are in the US. In lots of ways - not just womens roles.
One of the only things I have learned in my miserable life is that change takes lots and lots of time.
Joan .... I can understand the way you feel about men. any are really bad to women. We are really in our own sort of "stone age". I just hope the human race survives long enough to emerge from it.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 16, 2006, at 10:47:00
In reply to Re: a lot of gender tension in here » Joan797, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 9:43:32
I love men. Not in the "I've got to go jump one" sense, I just love the company of men.
I have to say, down in my corner of Texas, I've met very few who were total jerks.
Most are just muddling along with the rest of us, sometimes behaving badly because they "don't know no better." But deep down they're just confused little boys.
But - every rule does have exceptions.
Posted by curtm on June 16, 2006, at 11:50:00
In reply to Re: They aren't - Joan and » Larry Hoover, posted by AuntieMel on June 16, 2006, at 10:47:00
Is there objectivity involved in any way? Is there a fascination to attraction? Is there some form of reationship that you cannot explain?
I feel that way. I often listen to people in a multi-dimensional manner, meaning that I notice how their features change (pupils, muscles) and skin tones react (changing surface temperatures.)
Physiology of conversation: motion, beauty, finesse...fascinating.
This is the end of the thread.
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